Uppdaterat: Tisdag 22 November fick vi kommentar (svar) från Eddie Chumney. Se Fotnoten.
Vi avbryter den pågående serien om lidande och sanningens väktare för ett viktigt meddelande.
På nätet hittade bloggens “research-medarbetare” följande länkar Understanding Circumcision part 1 of 2 och Understanding Circumcision part 2 of 2 vilka påstås vara direkt citerade ur en email-konversation med Eddie Chumney.
I den publicerade email-konversationen, del 1, förekommer följande text (fetstil och färg tillagd):
CIRCUMCISION = SEAL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH
KJV Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Being physicall circumcised AFTER we are saved is a SIGN of our seal of righteousness by faith (that we have pledged to obey the voice of YHVH in our heart).
Just nu försöker Daniel (Aletheia) och hans medarbetare att nå Eddie Chumney för en kommentar.
Anledningen till att publicera detta fastän vi inte har fått verifikation och kommentar är att jag vill undvika att det publiceras någon annan stans och orsakar blockeringar i debatten innan:
- Vi har fått bekräftelse på att detta verkligen skrevs av Eddie Chumney
- Eddie har fått möjligheten att förklara vad han menar med detta
Daniel (Aletheia) som är värd för Eddies besök i Sverige kommenterar följande:
Taking the words ”at face value” it would seem he is saying what he is saying. While here in Sweden two times, his teaching [when talking about the Old Testament people/Jews] has been centered around the thought that circumcision has never had anything to do with salvation. He likes to verify this by the fact that the people of Israel was saved from Egypt (picture of our salvation) before the law was even given. The same thing with Abraham – he was saved by grace before circumcised. However, I have never gotten the impression or slightest hint this teaching was aimed towards Gentiles. *I am among those who goes as far as questioning the necessity of circumcision with the purpose of converting [to Judaism] even for natural born secular Jews, after they have entered into the New Covenant through Messiah. Therefore I would have been the first to react to the slightest hint from Eddies side, that Gentiles needs to get circumcised in the flesh somewhere down the line after already being circumcised at heart through the new Covenant through Messiah. Eddie Chumneys focus has in all the teaching I have listened to been on the circumcision of the heart. Nothing else.
I am working and the phone is ringing of the hook but my quick reading of the study lead me to this:
This online study appeared a little messy, unorganized and is missing the clear summary we have gotten used to receiving when listening to Eddie live. I am looking forward to hearing his reply and am hoping it won’t be too lengthy to fully conclude what he was actually trying to say…
* With the exception of Messianic Jews desiring to reach their own people without offending them by not being circumcised, like in the scenario of Timothy and Paul asking him to get circumcised.
Från en “native English speaking person” som läste båda delarna av Eddies studie fick vi följande kommentar:
Well, on page one of the link he seems to be arguing both ways at times, it is a pretty bumpy ride, but on page two he finally puts what he believes plainly – see below:
By doing an extensive study on the term “circumcision” from the Torah and the prophets and by reading the book of Galatians in context, we can come to the conclusion that Paul was NOT teaching AGAINST CIRCUMCISION or FOLLOWING TORAH but was making the argument that physical circumcision without faith in the Messiah has no eternal value. The Torah, Prophets and the NT teach us that the ideal is having faith in Messiah, have circumcised hearts and seek to follow Torah which includes physical circumcision. YHVH REQUIRES physical circumcision when you enter the land of Israel.
If you have faith in Messiah and are circumcised in your heart, YHVH is more lenient toward you if you have been born in the wilderness (nations of the world) because the lands outside of the land of Israel have less sanctity than the land of Israel. However during the Messianic Era, those who live in the land of Israel and who desire to fellowship in the Temple will be REQUIRED to be circumcised in the HEART AND THE FLESH.
Om den sista meningen nu är en förklaring i Eddies fördel överlåter jag åt läsarna att bedöma.
Även fast den citerade texten från del 1 tydligt slår fast att manlig omskärelse bör ske som ett tecken på den rättfärdighet genom tro som vi får ta emot av nåd, finns det anledning att ta reda på vad precis Eddie Chumney menade när han skrev detta.
Den som orkar läsa hela texten på den angivna länken skall se att hela saken är ganska rörig och otydlig. (A bumpy ride.)
- Det skulle alltså kunna handla om en mycket olyckligt formulerad mening.
- Men det är även möjligt att Eddie tog ner guarden i vänners lag och att han oavsiktligt avslöjade mer än vad han avsåg.
- Sedan finns det givetvis möjligheten att de som publicerade texten har redigerat den till att passa egen övertygelse.
Hur som helst är det en sak som måste redas ut.
Låt oss avvakta Eddies reaktion innan vi tar fram sågarna.
Och jag ber alla att kommentera på temat “Eddie Chumneys uttalande om manlig omskärelse som bekräftelse på rättfärdiggörelsen”.
Andra delar av Eddies förkunnelse ber jag er att ta upp i mer passande trådar eller i Off Topic #3.
Kommentarer välkomnas på Svenska eller Engelska. Eddie Chumney är givetvis välkommen att själv reagera.
Comments are welcome in English or Swedish, and obviously Eddie Chumney is welcome to react.
In order to keep the discussion useful I sincerely ask all commentators to avoid attacking anybody.
A simple and clear statement of own beliefs and convictions is On Topic. All attacking is Off Topic and will be blocked and removed.
This publication has as goal to document the truth in this matter.
Fotnot – Uppdaterat: Tisdag 22 November fick vi följande kommentar (svar) från Eddie Chumney.
(Här finns en översättning till Svenska.)
Abraham was circumcised in heart (obeyed God) BEFORE he was circumcised in the flesh. This is what Christians call salvation.
There are different LEVELS of holiness. Israel is more holy than the nations. Jerusalem is more holy than Israel. The Temple Mount is more holy than Jerusalem.
The Messianic Kingdom is more holy than now.
Whenever we go into a higher level of holiness in God, He requires more.
So, whenever we enter the Messianic Era, God will require the nations to keep the Feast of Tabernacles (Zech 14:16) and also require that the stranger to circumcised in heart and in flesh to enter his santuary (Ezek 44:8-9).
This is what Paul was explaining in Romans 4:11.
By NOT understanding these principles, this person is MISUNDERSTANDING what Paul was saying and what I was trying to point out what Paul was saying but then thinking:
“that circumcision is a final step in being Yeshua’s disciple” (meaning having something to do with salvation”.
Circumcision was a SIGN of the COVENENT.
So, is physical circumcision required for salvation in Yeshua? No
While we are in the nations, do we need to feel COMPELLED to get circumcised? No
Whenever we end the exile and return to the land of Israel and as we enter the Messianic Era will God have higher standards of us? Yes
In Joshua 5:2-4, the children of Israel were NOT circumcised in the wilderness.
BUT as they entered the promised land, God told Joshua to circumcise the children of Israel.
It is GOOD to give clarification of things which I teach when people don’t understand but I have a feeling that THIS question was motivated by those who DON’T want to embrace Hebrew roots and are looking for an excuse (a “heresy” as justification for them that this is the wrong way to go).